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Gabfest Reads is a monthly series from the hosts of Slate’s Political Gabfest podcast. This month, John Dickerson talks with Adrian Wooldridge about his new book The Revolutionary Center: The Lost Genius of Liberalism. Their conversation explores what liberalism really is at its core, how both the political left and right have drifted into illiberalism, and what ordinary citizens can do to restore faith in liberal principles and institutions.

This partial transcript has been edited and condensed for clarity.

John Dickerson: What we’ve been discussing somewhat, is the ways in which people become illiberal, even though they think they’re champions of liberalism. By which I mean not just progressivism, but conservatives as well. There’s the kind of choosing to be a liberal and then stumbling into it. Is that a useful way to think about it? 

Adrian Wooldridge: Absolutely. I think one of........

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