Most mainstream economists agree that the massive tariffs Donald Trump is imposing on most of the United States’s trading partners are a bad idea — that they will make the economy weaker and inflation worse.

Not Oren Cass.

The mild-mannered thinker — who is chief economist at American Compass, an influential conservative think tank, and counts JD Vance, Marco Rubio, and Josh Hawley as allies — is waging a lonely battle to convince the intellectual class that Trump’s tariffs (with some tweaks) are worthwhile. He made the case to Jon Stewart on a recent episode of The Daily Show and argued with Democratic Rep. Ro Khanna (CA).

We asked Cass to come on Today, Explained to make the best argument he could for what is, in fact, a fundamental reordering of the global trading system.

“This is a policy at the end of the day that’s oriented toward helping some of the folks who have really been the losers in the economy and have been left behind for a long time,” Cass told Today, Explained co-host Noel King.

King and Cass talked about the tariff rollout, what a re-industrialized America might look like, and how much we would be willing to pay for American-made shoes. The interview below is edited for length and clarity. Make sure to listen to the whole thing.

You are somewhat unusual for an economist in that you support tariffs. You and I are speaking on Monday, just after 1 pm. As we speak, the S&P is down more than 10 percent in the last five days. Now, presumably, you knew that the announcement of tariffs would lead to a market shock. Did you know, though, that the shock would be this big?

Well, I think the shock is proportional to the size of the announcement. On what President Trump was calling “Liberation Day,” he went with an all-of-the-above approach. He did a global tariff, plus very large tariffs on China, plus across-the-board “reciprocal tariffs” on most other countries. The level of those reciprocal tariffs in particular was very high. That has pushed the shock to the high side.

The other factor that is very important in doing tariffs is that ideally they are phased in because people need time to adapt. If you want more domestic production, you need time to build more factories.........

© Vox