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In testimony before the House Energy and Commerce subcommittee on Tuesday, Health and Human Services (HHS) Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. refused to say whether he’d commit to accepting policy advice from the nominee to lead the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) if she contradicted his anti-vaccine views.

The hearing was meant to discuss budgetary matters, but quickly delved into criticisms of Kennedy and his management of HHS. Rep. Raul Ruiz (D-California) also sought to get clarification on Erica Schwartz, whom President Donald Trump has nominated to lead the CDC, and whether Kennedy would allow her opinions to be given consideration.

Schwartz, a physician who specializes in public health and law, and who served as deputy surgeon general during Trump’s first term, is viewed as qualified for the position and supportive of efforts to vaccinate people against preventable diseases. But many health experts have questioned whether she’ll be able to properly implement her ideas with Kennedy’s department overseeing her work.

Ruiz asked Kennedy if he would “commit on the record today to implement whatever vaccine guidance [Schwartz] issues, without interference?”

Kennedy, who didn’t play a role in Trump selecting Schwartz, indicated that he wouldn’t.

Judge Blocks CDC Childhood Vaccine Changes Made by RFK Jr. Panel Picks

“I’m not going to make that kind of commitment,” he said.

Ruiz responded to Kennedy’s answer by suggesting he’d “probably fire her” if she made recommendations contradicting his views.

The California congressman also criticized Kennedy over his attempts to change the CDC’s childhood vaccine schedule earlier this year. Those changes, widely criticized by health experts across the country, were not based on scientific reasoning but rather on Kennedy’s desire to align vaccine guidelines closer to other countries’ standards.

The changes would be “detrimental to our nation and puts our nation at risk of getting more communicable diseases,” Ruiz added.

Kennedy asserted during the hearing that he has “never been anti-vax.” That statement flies in the face of his many false claims over the years that vaccines are harmful, or that “natural immunity” is safer than obtaining a vaccine for a given disease. Notably, Kennedy has also vacated a vaccine panel within the CDC and replaced its former members with people harboring anti-vaccine views.

If confirmed, Schwartz will become the fourth person to lead the CDC since Trump took office just over a year ago. White House aides have admitted that picking her had much to do with repairing the image of the agency following Kennedy’s anti-vaccine decisions.

But some health experts worry that picking Schwartz may not truly indicate a shift in positioning on vaccines. Rather, Schwartz may have been selected to calm fears among voters ahead of the midterms, and her views may be dismissed entirely.

“She’s a good and well-qualified nominee, and  would be in any administration. However, the issue is not her qualifications — it’s the environment that she’s being asked to work in,” said Amesh Adalja, spokesperson for the Infectious Diseases Society of America and senior scholar at Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, speaking to CNN. “If this is supposed to be some kind of pivot away from what’s been going on for the last year, it will all be window dressing if RFK Jr. is still in place.”

“It’s not about [Schwartz],” former CDC official Daniel Jernigan said, speaking to STAT. “It’s about what the secretary’s going to do. She could be terrible, she could be great. But it’s really: What is the secretary going to allow?”

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Chris Walker is a news writer at Truthout, based in Madison, Wisconsin. Focusing on both national and local topics since the early 2000s, he has produced thousands of articles analyzing the issues of the day and their impact on people. He can be found on most social media platforms under the handle @thatchriswalker.

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