Countries around the world employ a variety of strategies to navigate the Trump White House. Some try flattery and appeasement. Others keep a low profile. Spain has chosen a path of frank disagreement. Under Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez, Madrid has refused to follow Washington’s call for NATO members to increase defense spending to 5 percent of GDP and has rejected President Donald Trump’s request to use Spanish bases in the war with Iran. On issue after issue, from immigration to the Israeli-Palestinian dispute, Spain’s left-wing government has publicly forged a path that runs counter to a global trend of right-wing policies.

But now Sánchez’s government faces elections in November, and Spaniards will decide whether the country’s foreign and domestic policy is something they see as reasonable. I spoke with Spanish Foreign Minister José Manuel Albares on the latest episode of FP Live to find out how Madrid thinks about the trade-offs in following its progressive agenda while risking the ire of the world’s biggest economy. The full interview is available on the video box atop this page or on the FP Live podcast on Spotify, YouTube, or Apple. What follows here is a lightly edited and condensed transcript.

Countries around the world employ a variety of strategies to navigate the Trump White House. Some try flattery and appeasement. Others keep a low profile. Spain has chosen a path of frank disagreement. Under Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez, Madrid has refused to follow Washington’s call for NATO members to increase defense spending to 5 percent of GDP and has rejected President Donald Trump’s request to use Spanish bases in the war with Iran. On issue after issue, from immigration to the Israeli-Palestinian dispute, Spain’s left-wing government has publicly forged a path that runs counter to a global trend of right-wing policies.

But now Sánchez’s government faces elections in November, and Spaniards will decide whether the country’s foreign and domestic policy is something they see as reasonable. I spoke with Spanish Foreign Minister José Manuel Albares on the latest episode of FP Live to find out how Madrid thinks about the trade-offs in following its progressive agenda while risking the ire of the world’s biggest economy. The full interview is available on the video box atop this page or on the FP Live podcast on Spotify, YouTube, or Apple. What follows here is a lightly edited and condensed transcript.

Ravi Agrawal: Let’s start with relations between Madrid and Washington. In July, U.S. President Donald Trump called Spain a “wasted cause” and a “terrible partner” in NATO. He threatened to cut off trade. In September, he predicted that “Spain will be a ruined country.” So I have to ask you, is the relationship between Madrid and Washington broken?

José Manuel Albares: The relationship is fluid. We see this at all levels. I have contact with U.S. Secretary of State [Marco] Rubio. I’ve met with him on different occasions—in NATO ministerials, for instance—and I’ve had different conversations with him at the ambassador and embassy level, both here in Madrid and in Washington, and everything goes well. Above all, people to people, the reality of the relationship between the two countries is really good.

The United States is the historical and natural ally of Spain and of Europe. Spain is one of the few countries with which the United States has a surplus in trade. The same is true when we look at investment. We are great investors in the United States, and the United States is a great investor here in Spain. We are one of the main buyers of liquefied natural gas [LNG] from the United States. In Spain, we have two military bases—of Spanish sovereignty but used also by the United States—that are key to trans-Atlantic security. If you look at the exchange of students, businessmen, and tourism between Spain and the United States, you see the depth of our relationship.

RA: But I think the Trump administration will point out that Spain has not helped the United States, for example, in the war in Iran, by withholding its bases from U.S. use. This is a fairly transactional administration. If they were to ask, “What good is the Spanish alliance to the United States?” what would you say?

JMA: Two military bases with no........

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