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Despite being branded as autonomous and self-sustaining, artificial intelligence relies heavily on human labor — an army of data workers all over the world, primarily in the Global South. These workers “are purposely hidden by the companies that produce AI because they are the secret ingredient of AI itself,” says sociologist Antonio Casilli, the author of Waiting for Robots: The Hired Hands of Automation and co-writer of the documentary In the Belly of AI. Casilli estimates that over 160 million people are involved in data work around the world.

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. I’m Nermeen Shaikh.

One of the most discussed aspects of how artificial intelligence will transform society is how it will impact jobs and labor. On Wednesday, Bill Gates published a nearly 6,000-word essay in which he warned that society is not ready for the transformation and upheaval AI will cause. In the essay, Gates calls AI’s impact on the labor force one of the three primary risks of the technology, saying many jobs will disappear forever and that, quote, “AI will either be the greatest equalizer ever invented, or the worst source of injustice.”

But what gets much less discussion is how artificial intelligence has already transformed work globally. Our next guest is sociologist Antonio Casilli, author of Waiting for Robots: The Hired Hands of Automation. He writes, quote, “Human workers make automation possible. Recognizing the value of their contributions to these digital infrastructures is the first step toward worker reparation and rebalancing the current power dynamics.” He’s also co-writer of the film In the Belly of AI. This is the film’s trailer.

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SIMS WITHERSPOON: AI can be a transformational tool in our fight against climate change. MARK ZUCKERBERG: We’re really optimistic about the potential for AI to help scientists cure, prevent and manage all diseases in this century. SAM ALTMAN: Some robots will eat some jobs, and some robots will kill humans. But when you look at the trend as a whole, I think it’s going to be incredibly positive for humanity. UMA RANI: All kinds of artificial intelligence need humans behind them, an army of workers. MILAGROS MICELI: There is a report from the World Bank in which they actually argue that there are around 150 million data workers and 430 million data workers around the world. UMA RANI: The work is invisibilized, and the workers are invisibilized. MILAGROS MICELI: But what are they trying to hide? FAUSTINE MAKIRA: Can we take a break, please? INTERVIEWER 1: Yes, of course. INTERVIEWER 2: Yes, of course. ANA VALDIVIA: A cloud is not a cloud. It is concrete, right? So, it’s cement. The carbon footprint, carbon emission of a data center is huge, because most of the electricity that they use comes from fossil fuels. INTERVIEWER 3: There is one AI company which says that it usually removes people from poverty. In your opinion, is that true? KENYAN DATA WORKER 1: No, no, no. KENYAN DATA WORKER 2: It’s manipulation. KENYAN DATA WORKER 3: It’s just a punchline they use to attract people who are — who are qualified. UMA RANI: What is this AI development? How does it really help our society and the development process? Is it something that we really need?

SIMS WITHERSPOON: AI can be a transformational tool in our fight against climate change.

MARK ZUCKERBERG: We’re really optimistic about the potential for AI to help scientists cure, prevent and manage all diseases in this century.

SAM ALTMAN: Some robots will eat some jobs, and some robots will kill humans. But when you look at the trend as a whole, I think it’s going to be incredibly positive for humanity.

UMA RANI: All kinds of artificial intelligence need humans behind them, an army of workers.

MILAGROS MICELI: There is a report from the World Bank in which they actually argue that there are around 150 million data workers and 430 million data workers around the world.

UMA RANI: The work is invisibilized, and the workers are invisibilized.

MILAGROS MICELI: But what are they trying to hide?

FAUSTINE MAKIRA: Can we take a break, please?

INTERVIEWER 1: Yes, of course.

INTERVIEWER 2: Yes, of course.

ANA VALDIVIA: A cloud is not a cloud. It is concrete, right? So, it’s cement. The carbon footprint, carbon emission of a data center is huge, because most of the electricity that they use comes from fossil fuels.

INTERVIEWER 3: There is one AI company which says that it usually removes people from poverty. In your opinion, is that true?

KENYAN DATA WORKER 1: No, no, no.

KENYAN DATA WORKER 2: It’s manipulation.

KENYAN DATA WORKER 3: It’s just a punchline they use to attract people who are — who are qualified.

UMA RANI: What is this AI development? How does it really help our society and the development process? Is it something that we really need?

NERMEEN SHAIKH: That was the trailer for the film In the Belly of AI, directed by Henri Poulain and co-written by our next guest. Antonio Casilli joins us from Paris. He’s professor at the Institut Polytechnique de Paris and author of Waiting for Robots.

Professor Casilli, welcome to Democracy Now! Thank you........

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