A giant mug of instant black coffee and no food is not what you'd expect the host of a wellness podcast to have for breakfast.

Yet it's what Dr Chris van Tulleken, who hosts the BBC's What's Up Docs alongside identical twin brother Dr Xand confesses to having.

"I'm approaching middle age so don't want to eat all day. My way of not eating all day is not eating breakfast," he says.

It's this kind of honesty about not leading the perfect life and struggling with the stuff they know they should do but still don't, that makes them so relatable.

The brothers are both medical doctors who've become household names through their TV and radio work - they present children's series Operation Ouch! and Dr Xand is one of BBC's Morning Live resident experts while Dr Chris is well known for his bestselling book Ultra-Processed People.

On the podcast, they often disagree with each other over competing claims about health and wellbeing, much like they do in real life.

Xand laughs after Chris says it's a hard job working "with a brother like Xand who is so intensely annoying".

But really the brothers love working together and Chris admits that they started the podcast "quite selfishly as we were just trying to answer our own questions".

"But it turns out our problems are similar to everyone else's."

They say the podcast has changed their lives for the better and share what they have changed about their behaviour over the course of more than 30 episodes.

Like most of us, the brothers assumed eight hours was the gold standard........

© BBC