For more than half a century, the American right has preached the virtues of free markets and low taxes and deregulation. But a new wave of conservative thinkers are now arguing that Republicans have been wrong — or at the very least misguided — about the economy.

This new economic thinking represents a break from what we’ve come to expect from the American right. Its proponents argue for a new strain of economic populism, one that departs from the GOP’s past allegiance to big business and focuses instead on the working class.

The question is, is it for real?

Oren Cass is the founder of the think tank American Compass and the editor of a new book called The New Conservatives. He’s also one of the most influential advocates of this conservative economic populism.

Cass thinks the Republican Party has been too captive to corporate interests and market fundamentalism, and that conservatism needs a major reset, one that embraces American manufacturing and empowers workers.

I invited him onto The Gray Area to talk about this new right-wing populism, what distinguishes it from the left, and whether the Republican Party is serious about adopting it. As always, there’s much more in the full podcast, so listen and follow The Gray Area on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pandora, or wherever you find podcasts. New episodes drop every Monday.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Back in 2018, you wrote: “Our political economy has relied upon the insidious metaphor of the economic pie, which measures success by the amount of GDP available to every American for consumption. … But the things America thought she wanted have not made her happy.” Let’s start there: What did we think we wanted, and why hasn’t it made us happy?

You’re very perceptive to start there. We were just putting together this new book called The New Conservatives, which is an anthology of everything we’ve been doing at American Compass over the last five years. And I actually went back and grabbed that essay and made it a prologue to the book. Because exactly as you said, it is a starting point for the way I think about a lot of this.

In my mind, what we saw go wrong in our economics and our politics is that we did come to think of consumption as the end unto itself. And to be clear, I love consumption as much as the next guy. I’m not saying we should go back and live in log cabins, but I think we assumed that as long as we were increasing consumption, as long as material living standards were rising, everybody would be happy and we could declare success. And it’s important to say that, from a formal perspective, that is in fact how our economic models operate.

Economists will tell you their assumption is that the goal of the economic system is to maximize consumption. And so that’s where that economic pie metaphor comes from. Something that was so widely embraced across the political spectrum, across the intellectual spectrum, was this idea that as long as you’re growing the economy, you’re growing GDP, you don’t really have to worry too much about what’s in the pie or where it’s coming from. You can always then chop it up and make sure everybody has lots of pie.

And I think it’s important to say that — and........

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