The death of Charlie Kirk reignited heated discussions about political speech in America, especially the value of arguing with people you disagree with.

One company, Jubilee Media, has tapped into that sentiment and has been going viral on YouTube these last couple of years with its high-energy and high-drama — and yes, gimmicky — debate shows where one person faces off against a big group of people who disagree with them. (Kirk himself made an appearance on a Jubilee show in 2024: “Can 25 Liberal College Students Outsmart 1 Conservative?”)

Jason Y. Lee says he founded the company to foster debates and build empathy in a polarized country. But critics argue that some of Jubilee’s content could be categorized more as voyeuristic clickbait than high-minded discourse. One show has women arranging themselves based on perceived attractiveness and men rearranging them; another involves blindfolded guessing games about which participant is Black or white.

More recently, Mehdi Hasan — author and founder of his own media company, Zeteo, and former host of his own MSNBC show — appeared on Jubilee’s flagship debate show, Surrounded. His episode was called “1 Progressive vs 20 Far-Right Conservatives,” and that too made waves.

Hasan said he was prepared to vigorously defend his views, something he’s become known for over the years. But when he showed up, he wasn’t expecting some of the featured debaters to openly call for his deportation (Hasan is a US citizen originally from England) — or for one to proudly declare himself a fascist. The episode offered unusual insight into the promise and perils of political debate, how we practice politics in the age of algorithms, and the value — and limits — of engaging with those you fundamentally disagree with.

Today, Explained co-host Noel King spoke with Mehdi Hasan about his appearance on Surrounded — and what it taught him about this charged political moment.

Below is an excerpt of their conversation, edited for length and clarity. There’s much more in the full podcast, so listen to Today, Explained wherever you get podcasts, including Apple Podcasts, Pandora, and Spotify.

Where did you learn to debate?

Where did I learn to debate? I think around the dinner table. My family is very disputatious. The Hasans are known for having strong........

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