We can make reasonable shifts that can create big changes in how we connect with animals.

There’s an invisible belief system that conditions us to eat certain animals called "carnism."

I've long been a huge fan of Dr. Melanie Joy's work across many areas, including the psychology of oppression and how we view other animals and decide what we eat and who we eat. My interest was rekindled when I read her essay, "Is Eating Animals a Psychological Blind Spot?" I wanted to learn more about why she wrote it, her recent work on how people choose their meal plans—being plant-based isn't "radical"—and our complex, confused relationships with nonhuman animals. Here, she connects the dots and fills in the blanks on her paradigm-changing work.

Marc Bekoff: How and why did you become interested in the psychology of eating animals?

Melanie Joy: Like many people, I grew up with a dog who I loved, and I also grew up eating meat, eggs, and dairy. Over many years and many meals, I never thought about how I pet my dog with one hand while I had a pork chop with the other—a pork chop that had once been an animal at least as intelligent and sentient as my dog.

But in 1989, when I was 23 years old, I ate a contaminated hamburger that landed me in the hospital. After that experience, I couldn’t eat meat again because I was disgusted by it. While learning about my new, vegetarian diet, I came across information about animal agriculture—and was shocked by the extent of harm it caused to animals (as well as to the environment and public health). But what shocked me even more was that nobody I tried to share this information with wanted to hear it. They’d say things like “Don’t tell me that; you’ll ruin my meal,” or they’d call me a radical vegan hippie propagandist.

I became curious as to how rational, caring people—like I’d been when I was still eating meat—could just shut down when it came........

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