Claude Carlier (born January 11, 1944) is a French historian specializing in contemporary history and the history of aviation and aerospace. He holds a Doctorate of State in Letters and Human Sciences and serves as a professor of contemporary history at the University of the Sorbonne. He is also the director of the Center for the History of Aeronautics and Space and president of the Institute for the History of Contemporary Conflicts. Author of numerous works on aviation, aerospace, and military history, including The Development of French Military Aviation, 1958–1970 (1979), Marcel Dassault (1999), and Dassault: From Marcel to Serge (2017). His research spans the early days of aviation, the evolution of French aerospace programs, and the history of major industrial and military developments in the 20th century, he has also contributed extensively to journals such as Guerres Mondiales et Conflits Contemporains, producing scholarly articles on topics ranging from the Wright brothers in France to French military aviation during global conflicts.

You are one of our country’s leading aviation experts. What does the current era inspire in you?

CC: Exploration and progress are inherent to human nature. It took humanity millennia to conquer its planet—its land and seas—and only a few decades, with aviation, to conquer its atmosphere. At the start of the 20th century, aviation pioneer Clément Ader wrote, “He who masters the air will master the world.” Today, aviation has reached a highly advanced stage, in airframes, engines, equipment, and electronics. Civil and military aviation have become essential to the global economy and national security. Aviation dominated the 20th century and, by extending into space, now paves the way for humanity’s conquest of the universe.

Eighty years ago, France faced the critical challenge of developing a Franco-German interceptor under the constraints of occupation. Are we facing a comparable situation today?

CC: Aviation cooperation only works well when tasks are divided according to the needs and expertise of each partner. This is far from the case! The difficulties in the SCAF (Future Combat Air System) program are nearly impossible to resolve. How can agreement be reached when requirements differ so widely? A cooperative program that tries to satisfy all partners, both in studies and production, risks producing a substandard aircraft, with costs far exceeding the initial budget and schedules that are not met. Choosing the prime contractor is crucial for a program’s success and requires acceptance from all partners, though it should ultimately go to the most qualified. Leadership is earned through a team’s technical, industrial, and commercial experience, which must carry significant responsibilities and share its knowledge with cooperating partners. Military cooperation programs are generally driven by governments for political reasons; their sole advantage is that they are very difficult to cancel.

How did Dassault avoid this pitfall during World War II?

CC: During World War II, Marcel Dassault was imprisoned and deported to Buchenwald. Throughout his imprisonment and deportation, he consistently refused to work for Germany.

What is your view on the surge in orders for Dassault Aviation?

CC: The Rafale, with its versatility and proven combat record, has attracted several countries unwilling to purchase American or Russian equipment. The current challenge is meeting the increased production pace, particularly across the program’s 400 subcontractors. A second assembly line is being considered in India to meet the country’s significant demand.

In your opinion, who in the family is best suited to take over the group?

CC: The Groupe Industriel Marcel Dassault and Dassault Aviation are chaired by Éric Trappier, with the family’s agreement. Succession is not currently an issue.

Are you preparing a new book on the lesser-known aspects of Marcel Dassault’s life?

CC: Not at the moment.

*Après cette guerre : une lettre de Marcel Bloch (1940), de Patrick Fridenson

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*Volodymyr Yermolenko Interview | Alexandre Gilbert #318.1

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