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For the past few months, the Atlantic’s Clint Smith has been trying to understand what it’s like for Black service members to report to a secretary of defense like Pete Hegseth.

Hegseth has called “Our diversity is our strength” the “single dumbest phrase in military history.” He has declared Black History Month “dead.” And within days of taking charge at the Department of Defense in January 2025, he fired the military’s highest-ranking Black officer, Gen. Charles Q. Brown.

A little more than a year later, more Black officers have been let go—or simply walked off the job. Then there are the promotions Hegseth has personally blocked, many of them of minorities and women.

The military was one of the first integrated environments in the U.S., and Smith worries about its future. “Decimating the officer infrastructure, these folks who have been in the military for a long time, who often serve as mentors to many of the younger service members, it’s going to have a profound impact on the long-term landscape of what the military looks like,” he said.

On a recent episode of What Next, host Mary Harris spoke to Smith about how Hegseth is making the U.S. military a worse career option in symbolic and material ways. This conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity.

Mary Harris: It seems like so many of the people you’ve spoken to are struggling with this question: “Do I stay or do I go?” And everyone had a different answer. A lot had contradictory answers, saying: “If we leave, there won’t be anyone left. Nevertheless, I’m leaving.” And you pressed on that with........

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